coming to follow the fundamentalist movement.
They declined, but I didn't know about doing it the other way.
OK, wait, wait.
So who invited him to join?
I don't know who it was, but he says
they had both Clark and Woolley relatives that joined.
It wasn't just the Woolleys.
There were some Clarks there too.
Oh, so some of the Clarks joined at the same time
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that your father was reached out to?
Yes.
Oh, really?
OK.
at one of our Ezra T. Clark reunions in Farmington, that
segment of the family came out once and celebrated Ezra T. and their ancestors with us.
And they were at the lunch
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and they sat out in a random circle with
their dresses and...
Oh wow.
So these were Clarks that came to the Ezra T. Clark
reunion. Is that when they actually petitioned Ellsworth?
Uh, No, no, they were still living in Idaho when the movement was just starting.
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Oh, when Ellsworth was petitioned originally.
Yeah, when he was just a young father.
I see, I see.
And so they, that's when they were invited, he and his dad were invited to ask if they wanted to go.
- - - 00:01:20 - - -
Right. So you don't know who it was that petitioned them, but it was someone from the fundamentalist faith—faiths, I guess.
No.
Okay.
I guess the only one I would have married might know. The rest of us are dead, so...
Yeah.
Well, four of us, nine.
- - - 00:01:40 - - -
Yeah, I know. I was counting that yesterday. I realize there's only four left, right? You, David, Richard, and Mary Ann. That's it. Yeah. My goodness. So yeah, that's rather intriguing.
Now the interesting thing about Cyrus was that he was just interested in anything Woolley and what we had in relation to the Woolleys so that he could do more digging on the foundations of the fundamentalist groups.
- - - 00:02:00 - - -
He was excommunicated along with his son and his membership has not been restored yet.
- - - 00:02:20 - - -
We can't do it.
We can't get his work done without permission from the first president.
John Wickersham and Lorin Wooley?
Yeah, Lorin C. Yeah, they're still showing this excommunicated.
Yes, yes.
- - - 00:02:40 - - -
I know.
I've noticed that on FamilySearch.
They have orange temples.
Yeah, which I think is interesting. And in fact, what we're trying to figure out is if
if Ellsworth petitioned, Widtsoe, which according to David and according to David and maybe
- - - 00:03:00 - - -
Marianne, yeah, Marianne, they both claim that he that Ellsworth reached out to Ellsworth
said that he reached out to John A. Widtsoe. Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah. And petition that he be. Yeah, that he be readmitted and this is according to a document that Mary Ann had and then
- - - 00:03:20 - - -
verified by David and he said that Bob knew the same and maybe my dad did as well but but I clearly my dad knew 'cause the document came from my dad's records so. Oh, okay. Unless, unless he didn't read it but but I won't I won't surprise that I... yeah... all I heard was it had been in my head. I heard a general idea from somewhere I got it that John had kind of backed off.
- - - 00:03:40 - - -
was more amenable to accepting the church's policy than Lorin.
- - - 00:04:00 - - -
Yeah.
John went on and stayed committed to it, but John was willing to...
He seemed, to better candidate for a bit, re-accepted, but I don't think he ever was.
Well, according to David, John Wickersham
was wanting to be brought back into the church publicly,
- - - 00:04:20 - - -
not exposed publicly when he was excommunicated.
And the church just backed off altogether
because of that request, which I suppose
I can understand because, I mean, think about it.
If an excommunicant feels so inclined that, hey,
- - - 00:04:40 - - -
you need to do this publicly, you know what I mean?
Like since when should the excommunicant dictate?
To announce, to announce his formal beliefs?
Well, yes.
So we're basically saying that, you know,
you excommunicated me publicly,
therefore you have to readmit me publicly,
you know what I mean?
Right.
- - - 00:05:00 - - -
That's not necessarily fair, I think, to the church.
It's like, you know.
Oh, I see, oh, I see.
So that's what David said, so that was likely the reason
he was not readmitted back into the church because he was living.
I see.
Because he wasn't humble about it, you know, just like, as if it was a mistake, you know.
- - - 00:05:20 - - -
I mean there is exoneration in the court of law, that is a thing, but in this case, but
yeah we're not judges of the law.
And that's a heavy burden for those that are, to those who stand in for the ultimate
judge to know his will. So that's quite a burden. So I give them a wee way for
- - - 00:05:40 - - -
figuring that out.
Yeah. So, so anyway, that was the, that's the narrative that David gave me. And Interesting. I was going to go through with that. John Wooley, a guy wrote a book about it, a biography of him…